Do you think Russians and Poles can ever put aside their religious and historical animosities for good?

Question

Since it seems that most Russians have become quite secularized, and recently even the Poles are slowly becoming more irreligious, is it only a matter of time before both peoples can look back at the Orthodox vs. Catholic centuries of rivalries and say it should just be a relic of the past?

Answer 1

I can give you the current perspective from the Polish point of view.



The animosity between Poles and Russian doesn't stem from religion. However, adopting different religions 1000 years ago put Poland and Russia in different "spheres of influence" and gave birth to numerous cultural differences. Nobody has doubts that Russia is Eastern Europe. So why do Polish people hate it when you call them like that? Because we've always considered ourselves part of the Western world, as opposed to the "wild East" - Russians, Mongols, Tartars, etc. In this way, Poles kind of looked down on Russians, Ukrainians, and other Eastern European nations, as someone less civilized. I'm using past tense on purpose here, I wouldn't say it's an issue anymore.



And, much more important, Poles look at Russia through "imperialist" glasses. Because of more than a century (1795-1918) when a large part of Poland was under Russian control, and 45 years of communism, when all of Poland was under Russian control, Poles are extremely suspicious of all signs of Russian imperialism. Take, for instance, the story of Nord Stream - the pipeline from Russia to Germany. In Poland it was called new Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, betrayal, etc. and it strengthened anti-Russian sentiment like nothing in the last 20 years. Also, Putin's declarations that if the American anti-missile system is placed in Poland, Russia would re-target their nukes at Poland - it was seen as outward hostile, although about 80% of people were actually against having the missile shield. Both things strengthened the stereotype of Russia as an imperialist country. The problem is that unfortunately Russia doesn't seem to treat Poland as a partner (we won't talk to you because you're now EU so we'll talk with Brussels, because the EU is an equal partner with Russia). This is not helping in any way. Also, Russians don't understand that Poles didn't treat the end of WW2 as "liberation" but rather as a change of occupation (in my opinion only partly true). This causes issues when we start discussing history.



As for the issue with pre-war Polish eastern territories (as someone mentions here), I think there is no problem with it - nobody serious makes any claims about them now.



I believe the current younger generation isn't particularly anti-Russian, but without some serious discussion there is no way we can put aside the differences, we just don't understand the other side. Also, more contact would be most helpful (we should have visa-free travel!!!). Imagine an average Polish person who has never been to Russia and hasn't met any Russians in person, and gets all this media pulp about Russia...



Fortunately, this grudge is not so much against Russians as people, it's against their rulers. So, we seem to understand each other as long as we don't discuss WW2 or Putin :) We're Slavs, anyway, though very different Slavs.

Greetings to all Russians, I hope we can bridge the gap ;)

Answer 2

1. There are no religious animosities, at least on the Polish side. I've never met a Polish person with a negative attitude towards the Orthodox (who are often also Polish BTW) but in Russia I had few unpleasant situations because I'm a catholic. Before I went there didn't know that this can be an issue as in Poland I've lived with our Orthodox side by side and everything was and is fine. Maybe in Ru they have some strange propaganda that catholics want to convert them or something, Anyway religious factor is not important for the Poles because both faiths are very similar and we are both christians anyway.

2. Historical issues will never be and shouldn't be forgotten as Russia did to Poland what it did. In order to learn from our mistakes we have to remember them. Here the important thing is to see the difference between governments and people. Everybody knows that our governments fight but common people cooperate. Poles and Russians make many projects together, exchange students, trade etc. I'd say that this great hatred is mainly created and sustained by the media and people who only believe what they see on the tv.

Answer 3

Interestingly enough, my grandfather was also of Polish/German descend.



However, my best friend is Polish. I know from her that Poles have a strong dislike of Russia and its government, but they are okay with some Russians who come to Poland and demonstrate their respect for Polish culture. She was telling me that there is a Russian person who came to Poland, learned Polish language and became famous in Poland.



The reasons why Polish people dislike Russia so much:



1. Poland has always suffered from Russia and was occupied by Russia for many years.



2. After the WWII, when Russian troops entered Poland, Soviet soldiers raped Polish girls and women and killed anyone who was trying to defend them. It is a well-known fact in Poland (the same was happening in other countries). It is not publicized in Russia though. According to Polish people, living under Soviets who were supposed to be the "liberators" was worse than living under Germans.



3. NKVD executed 22,000 Polish officers in Katyn massacre in April and May of 1940.



4. The doomed flight of Polish Air Force Tu-154 and the investigation that followed were not handled properly by the Russian side, according to Polish sources (see Wikipedia for references).



All of the above and Soviet control over Poland after the WW II had lasting repercussions on the Polish-Russian relations. I personally think Poles will never be able to put aside their historical animosity towards Russia as a country, and I can understand that. Nobody can blame Poland for moving away from the Russian sphere of influence.



Although, on the personal level, I believe that we should do everything possible to improve the relations between two countries. Polish people are very open-hearted and forgiving. And maybe they will give Russians another chance in the future.

Answer 4

Interesting for me either, cause just as Slava I do also have Polish/German ancestors (it was XVIII century though).



Q: "Do you think Russians and Poles can ever put aside their religious and historical animosities for good?"

A: there is no animosity toward Poland in Russia. But some Poles don't like Russia - thanks to: http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nsdd/23-1908t.gif - my fav part is: "reinforcing the pro-Western orientation of their peoples".

As for our history, it was not specifically religious animosity, it was mainly territorial one. Unfortunately, Poles accuse Russians (not even Soviets, which are different things) of stealing their lands (Western Ukraine). The thing is, that in soviet govt and army there were many different nationalities, and it's inaccurate to accuse only Russians. It's offensive. In fact, some Russians even do agree, that those stolen lands should given back to the original owners.

Answer 5

It will take some time. The process has started already. Less and less people are attending masses every week in Poland, especially young generation so in I would say 25 years that question will insignificant in Polish Russian relations.

Answer 6

You know, it's an interesting question for me personally. My Polish great grand father belonged to the Polish nobility and fought for Polish independence against the Russian Empire. He was sent to Siberia after one of the Polish uprisings in the end of 19th century. But national identification is an evolving thing and here I am, a Russian nationalist with Russian-Polish roots LOL

I believe the main step on the way to the Russian-Polish "appeasement" is the establishment of the Russian national state. Not an Empire (the Russian Empire), not a quasi-Empire (the USSR or contemporary Russian Federation) but a true national democratic state of the Russian people, where interests and the well-being of individual Russians are valued higher than any blah-blah-blah about imperial or quasi-Imperial pseudo glory. The Russians always served as cannon fodder for building some mythical state. It's the time to think about people NOT the state.



@ Valentina, "pure-Russianess" could be easily identified. If you want to make ALL peoples but your own people happy it brings about reasonable doubts about any "pure-thing".

I hope you were kidding about "Polish occupation".

Answer 7

Watch these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ЛтБпДА

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuW-7T8zd1E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXd_U_vjSKE&feature=related

and you get the impression (absolutely true) that when an adequate majority, both in Russian and the Polish side, the convergence of these two Slavic nations is quite possible based solely on the idea of ​​a new pan-Slavism. Religious differences in this case will not play a significant role.

Answer 8

I have a friend in Warsaw. My mate been in Poland too and said all were friendly. I think its stereotypes which based on our past. At least young generation do not have any problems with each other.

Answer 9

No, I do not see positives perspectives.

Poland and Russia fighted permanently from Middle ages. Not only Poland suffered from Russian troops but they invaded Russia many times too and wanted to capture Moscow not once.



As for times of USSR, from position of many ordinary Russians Poland was one more direction where Soviet government sent money instead of developing Soviet economy. That is why any of Eastern European countries are considered as waist of money received by labour of average Soviet people with hate in responce.



There were many dark pages of history between Poland and Russia, and not always Polish government was nice and Russia suffered from Poland too.



But since the only way for Poland to have peaceful relations with Russia is all the Russians should blame themselves that they were born in USSR and forget that our grandparents and parents suffered from Stalin much more than Poland there is not exit from this situation. I do not see why Russians should be responsible for Stalin actions, he even was not Russian, but nobody asks Georgia to apologize for him.



I think peace can be acieved only when there will no be those who were born in 20 century on the Earth any more. It is about 80 years from now.



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I read the last answer and have some more thoughts. After USSR disintedration there were A LOT of different chirches who wanted to expand their beliefs here. Many of them were not just chirches but religious sects, where people gave all their money to leaders of these chirches, even sold apartments etc... They were walking from one door to other, were cathcing you on the street etc... and asked to talk about god, were organazing courses of foreign languages and there again were brainwashing those who came there. MANY people suffered from there "missioners", there were cases where they were even called people to kill themselves and there were people who followed these advices! Unfortunately it was reality of 1990s in Russia.



Of course, it is not about Catholics, but since that time Russians are very cautious about any potentional missioners, if they hear that someone is from any of Western churches, they immediately have in their brain - probably it is one more sect. That is why unless Russians know certain person very well and realise that no, he is not going to promote any religious idea, it can be a problem.